Mary, the Mother of Jesus

The Bible that is used by Christians tells us that Jesus was born of Mary. I do not think anyone in the Christian faiths disagrees with this.

All of the main line Christian faiths appear to state that the Trinity, God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, are one.

The Catholic Church, based on Mary being the Mother of Jesus, and God/Jesus/Holy Spirit being one entity, calls Mother Mary, the Mother of God. (Mainly in the Hail Mary/Rosary.) Is that a far stretch? I hear many Protestants complain that Mary is NOT the Mother of God. Do they believe that the Trinity of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is one entity as their faith professes (in most cases)? If so, how far of a stretch is it to say that Mary is the Mother of God? At least in His human form?

Mary, in an effort to bring the people of God BACK to God, has been reported to appear before many people over the years. In each of these apparitions, she has requested that people come back to the beliefs of the Church created by her Son, Jesus Christ. In each case her message was about Jesus and coming back to him. She would often have the person(s) she was talking to do something to help improve and grow the Church in the name of her Son. (At least those apparitions that have been approved by the Catholic Church.) Many of these apparitions and the messages associated with them brought healing to the recipients.

The Catholic Church believes that Mary was of Immaculate Conception, meaning that she was born without sin, and that she lived a life without sin. This declaration was proclaimed in 1854, and in 1858, St. Bernadette, an uneducated little girl at the time, who had not heard those words before, received the words, “I am the Immaculate Conception” from an apparition of Mary who gave her various instructions to follow. These instructions again tried to point people to the Church and to help grow the Church.

The Catholic Church believes that Mary was ever Virgin. That she had no children after Jesus. Records, such as Protoevangelium of James, that were created in early times (in the case of Protoevangelium of James, it is estimated to have been completed within 60 years of the death of Mary), indicate that Mary was dedicated by her Mother Anna to the Church of God, and that she lived and worked in the Church as a virgin until she was of age and then was to be married to Joseph as her protector, who was an older male with offspring of his own already (wife was deceased). The original Greek word of “Brethren” used in the Bible transcripts meant includes half brothers/sisters, cousins and other close relatives, as was the custom in that time. While the Bible states that Jesus’ brethren were out side, it could well include His half brothers/sisters through Joseph, His cousins, etc. It is curious to me that there is never, in any of the transcripts from that time, that I have read or heard of, telling of Mary ever being pregnant again, and of her having any other child. The early Protestant Reformers, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli, all believed in the Ever Virgin status of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. It was their followers that sought to distance themselves even further from their Parent Church for various reasons that removed that doctrine from their faith.

In conclusion, many people of the Catholic faith, put a lot of faith and trust in Mother Mary, talk to her (pray) often and ask her for her intercession with Christ for a better life, or help in life. Who better to ask for intercessory pray that the Mother of Jesus?

Intercessory Prayer

For the past 20ish years, and even more so this past five or so years, I have heard people say that Catholics worship Mother Mary and the other Saints above God. While this may be true for some who claim to be Catholic, those that understand the Catholic faith and live by that faith in fact do not.

Most Christian people, be they Catholic, Methodist, Nazarene, etc., believe in Intercessory Prayer. That is, the process of asking someone else to pray on their behalf, or for something they feel needs prayer. For example, if someone in their family is having health issues, they may ask their Church, friends and family to pray for the improved health of that person. This is very common by most Christians. I have even heard of many Christians talk about “talking to their deceased Mother/Father/Brother/Grandfather/Grandmother” asking them for advice/etc.

Christians, by their faith, and remember, Catholics are the first Christians and are still Christians, believe that when you pass away from this world, their soul is brought up to heaven and they live on forever at the feet of God. Many Christians believe that those that have gone on to Heaven are able to watch us and hear us here on Earth…

Catholics select those Holy people that lived a very Christian life and whom they believe have been Sainted by God as a role model for their own life. In many cases they talk (pray) to that Saint asking for their intercessory prayers to God. (Who better to talk to God on your behalf than someone sitting at His feet?) The same goes to Mary, Jesus’ Mother, and our Mother, as per Jesus Himself. Being a mother, Catholics are pretty sure she has Jesus’ ear. We ask her to intercede on our behalf with her Son and ask her to help guide us towards those things that will make her Son happy with us.

Now, if a Catholic forgets to add to their prayers a prayer directly to God, they are remittances as to their faith and may need to learn more about their faith, but as a group, they are not placing the Saints or Mother Mary above God, just asking their help in communicating with God.

You may see many Catholics wearing a medal of a Saint or of Mother Mary, and in most cases it is because that is who they wish to emulate in their actions in order to get closer to God.

Dressing right for the occassion…

When you go to visit the President of the United States at his house, you will more than likely be dressed to the best you can. If you were invited to meet the Queen of England you would put on your best suit or dress and get all cleaned up for the event. If you go to visit the President, King, Queen or leader of any nation at their home, I am pretty sure in most cases you will dress up for the event.

These last few years I have seen the clothing at the Christian churches I have gone to or go to diminish to the point of people wearing shorts, t-shirt, and shower shoes. (I don’t care what you say, flimsy, plain (and in many cases “designer”) flip flops are shower shoes. Not street shoes…) Now, I am told by many that I should be happy that the person is even coming to Church. This I have to agree with. But I don’t agree with the clothing choice, and what I feel is disrespect they are showing to God. It looks like to me they are saying “Oh, I guess I better go make an appearance, so let me through my comfy cloths on so I am at least comfortable while I am there.”

The Christian faith, in general, considers God our King. The Church is by biblical announcement the House of God, our King. Give our FOUNDING King the same respect we give our Secular Kings, if not more respect! Church is not a place to be comfortable and all relaxed. It is a place to worship God in community and a place to show your respect to God. Do so with your clothing, your thoughts and your actions, not just your actions (of showing up).

Now, don’t get me wrong. If you are of low income and can’t afford a suit, nice dress, etc. Clean your best clothes you have and come to Church. BUT, if you have a nice dress or a nice suit, or can afford the same, wear it in respect of your true King!

Look back at the pictures of prior to about 20 years ago of people in the US and around the world. (I don’t know if this is happening all over the place, but it sure is all over the US as I see it!) You see each person, from the youngest child to the oldest person present wearing, proudly, their best clothing. They are PROUD of what they are wearing and they are HAPPY to wear it. Now, I understand the kids, and many of the adults, can’t wait to go home and get out of these “uncomfortable” clothes, but they are proud of what they are wearing to Church.

I can remember seeing people wearing those clothes to the after Church events such as picnics, etc, playing in the Church yard, etc. After Church and the events afterwords were over they went home and changed. If the Church had a Church meeting that evening, they remained dress and would go back to Church again, still dressed up.

Why have we gotten so self centered and moved away from showing God, our King, the respect we would show our secular Kings (Presidents/etc)?

In Christ…

The Sabbath

Over the last few weeks I have had some pretty heated and long discussions about “The Sabbath” and the 3rd Commandment of “Honor the Lord’s Day” with several people.

I am aware that the Old Testament day for the Sabbath is the 7th day of the week, from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. This is the day that the Jewish and I believe the Muslims still follow as the Sabbath. Somewhere between 75AD and 321AD Christians began celebrating the Sabbath (which translates to “day of rest”, not 7th Day, etc.) on Sunday in memory of the day Christ rose from the dead. So, for at least 1700 years now, Christians, under the Bishop or Rome (now called Pope) and the head of the Christian faith in 321AD, Christians have their Sabbath (day of rest and prayer to God) on Sunday.

Those that follow the Christian faith mostly have Sunday as their “Holy” day. There are of course exceptions, by some sects (all religions are sects in my reading of the word sect) that claim Christianity, that are on a Saturday Sabbath.

This leads to the point of honoring God’s commandment of resting 1 in 7, which for “main line” Christians is Sunday.

I can remember when I was younger that almost every store was closed on Sunday, by law, and those few that were open, mainly grocery stores, couldn’t sell some items. I’m not a big fan of having laws made by our government saying that we can’t be open on a certain day and certain items can’t be sold on that day, but I do think that ALL Christians that own a business should close on Sunday, the “official” Sabbath for most Christian faith systems. I also think that all Christians that wish to follow their faith fully should stop going to business on Sunday. Buy your groceries and gas on Saturday, go to a park and enjoy God’s creations after Church/Mass/Services instead of going to the mall and shopping or…. Go up into the mountains and enjoy the day. Sit on your porch and get to know your family again. Slow down and enjoy the life God gave us and find Him again through your faith community and His creations.

UPDATE AND CORRECTION (July 9th, 2009): I was corrected on the Muslim Holy Day. It is Friday.

???What to do…???

Well, in my post a couple days ago (here), I posted the 10 Commandments as given to us by God in the Old Testament (Exodus 20:2-17 [show]Exodus 20:2-17 [2]"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. [3]"You shall have no other gods before(1) me. [4]"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. [5]You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, [6]but showing steadfast love to thousands(2) of those who love me and keep my commandments. [7]"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. [8]"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9]Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, [10]but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. [11]For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. [12]"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you. [13]"You shall not murder.(3) [14]"You shall not commit adultery. [15]"You shall not steal. [16]"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. [17]"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's." (ESV) Footnotes 1. [20:3] Or 'besides' 2. [20:6] Or 'to the thousandth generation' 3. [20:13] The Hebrew word also covers causing human death through carelessness or negligence
), and made reference under the 3rd Commandment (Exodus 20:8-10 [show]Exodus 20:8-10 [8]"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9]Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, [10]but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. (ESV)
) about some issues I was having at work.

Today those issues blew up in my face (so to say). Our week at Crisp’s Dairy Treat (where I am cook, Ice Cream Man, Cleaner with the rest of the crew) goes from Thursday through Wednesday, and we get our schedules for the next week late on Wednesday. Today we got our schedule for tomorrow through next Wednesday. Each Monday, before 16:30 hours (4:30PM), we are required to post a note stating what time we need off. We do this weekly for the next weeks schedule.

At my interview, I informed the owners (Crisp be their last name) that I was a very devout Christian and that I tried to live by the Bible and Christian faith, which includes the aforementioned 3rd Commandment (as well as the rest), and that I also went to Church from 9 to 12 each Sunday (first to a Catholic Church, then to my wife’s Nazarene Church), but IF I had to, I could work in the evenings if really needed. Each Monday I turn in a note stating that I am requesting off Sunday for Religious beliefs and Religious reasons. So far, I had gotten them off.

Not this coming week. I work Sunday day… This does not have me happy and is against my belief system. I was told by Mr. Crisp that today’s society doesn’t allow for “not working on Sunday”. My response is, “that’s why there are problems in today’s society”. I was further told that he had wanted Sundays off for years after he converted to Christianity but that his company laughed at him and made him work on Sundays. This is a bad reason to make others work on Sunday if it is against their beliefs. (And what gets me is he is a Nazarene which is a Church that is trying to take their people back to Christ in a very pure way, and their by-laws very clear state, on page 41 of their manual dated 2005-2009, section 27.2.2 “Profaning of the Lord’s Day by participation in unnecessary secular activities, thereby indulging in practices that deny it’s sanctity.”) Mr. Crisp further went on to say that they stayed open because his son, who owns part of the business needed the money to pay off debt and Sunday was a busy day so they were going to stay open for that day.

Now, if I were Jewish or Muslim (and the day was Saturday) and I was told I had to work, there would be recourse. I feel that right now there is no recourse. Why is that?

I REALLY feel that I should not be made to work Sunday days. (Or evenings, but will give him that per our agreement at our initial interview.) I REALLY feel it is God’s wish that we not be working on the Sabbath, and I very much want to follow his ways.

What should I do about this issue? Sigh…

Following Christ, and what it means to me.

This past few weeks I have been looking at my actions, and how I profess my faith to the outside world… To be a Christian, one must accept God and His Son, Jesus into their heart and follow the Commandments of God (Exodus 20:2-17 [show]Exodus 20:2-17 [2]"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. [3]"You shall have no other gods before(1) me. [4]"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. [5]You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, [6]but showing steadfast love to thousands(2) of those who love me and keep my commandments. [7]"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. [8]"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9]Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, [10]but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. [11]For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. [12]"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you. [13]"You shall not murder.(3) [14]"You shall not commit adultery. [15]"You shall not steal. [16]"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. [17]"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's." (ESV) Footnotes 1. [20:3] Or 'besides' 2. [20:6] Or 'to the thousandth generation' 3. [20:13] The Hebrew word also covers causing human death through carelessness or negligence
being the Commandments). The rules of faith are simple:

1. I am the Lord your God, you shall not have strange gods before me.

This one seems pretty easy to do. And for me it has been.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Again, this one is easy for me.

3. Keep the Sabbath (Sunday for Christians people, Saturday for Jewish people) holy.

This one goes on to say “No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by the alien who lives with you”. This commandment is proving hard for me these past few months. For the past few months I have been working at a place that is ran by Christians, but is open on Sundays and expects everyone (but them) to be there if scheduled to work. When I interviewed, I said that I was a devout Christian, and could not work on Sundays. So far, they haven’t made me do so, but this past week I was originally put on the schedule for Sunday, God intervened and changed it to another day.

It appears that many people that claim to be Christian do not take this part of their faith to heart, as there are way too many businesses open for business on Sundays (or Saturdays). I would be VERY happy to work Monday through Saturday, forgo over time pay, getting straight hourly pay, but I would like to be off from 0000 Sunday morning until 0000 Monday morning. It is part of my faith (and that of many of the employers out there!), and something I should be allowed to follow!?

4. Honor your father and mother.

This one I have not followed to well for the past 40ish years. (And I’m only 47 as I type this!!) I am working on honoring my parents better and trying to mend fences with them and become better with the whole family. Pray for me on this one!

5. You shall not kill.

Easy for me, I have no desire to kill anyone!

6. You should not commit adultery.

Not a problem for me. Many people fail in this area, and I have in the past, I have come to understand this commandment better, and have fixed this part of my life! May God forgive me for my past!

7. Do not steal.

Not a problem for me. Many people fail in this area, and I have in the past and have felt bad each time I did, often finding a way to pay for what I stole after the fact, I have come to understand this commandment better, and have fixed this part of my life! May God forgive me for my past!

8. Do not bear false witness against your neighbor.

I have some issues of not telling the whole truth, but endeavor to always tell the truth or try not to talk. I pray on this one daily!

9. Do not covet your neighbor’s wife.

Easy for me.

10. Do not covet your neighbor’s goods.

This one is hard as I like things I see and often want what others have. I need to go back to the time I began my Postulate stage with the Brothers and Sisters of Reconciliation and re-purge my items, keeping only what I need for day to day life and for work. I pray on this one daily as well.

And the 11th “new” commandment that Jesus gave us:

11. Love one another as I have loved you.

This one is hard for me. There are many people out there that do things or behave in such a way that it makes me hard to love them. This one I really need to dig down inside myself, trust in God and love everyone. Easier said than done though…

Jesus’ command to be one Church…

One thing I like about the Catholic Church is that you can go to any Church, anywhere in the world on the same day and hear the same readings from the Bible. If you go to Mass every day of the year, you will have been read the Bible pretty much completely through.

One of the things that has been foremost on my mind for about three years, is the number of Christian based religions that all say they are the true Christian Church, yet most of them are less than 500 years old. The oldest Christian Church is the Catholic, or Universal Church. This Church has stated that it wants to bring all the Christian Churches “back home”, yet does many things to stop that from happening, based on comments, actions, and in some cases doctrine. (Priest not being able to marry being one such doctrine that has many outsiders, and some insiders not happy.)

Today’s Gospel reading is John 10:11-18 [show]John 10:11-18 [11]I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. [12]He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. [13]He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. [14]I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, [15]just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16]And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. [17]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [18]No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." (ESV)
, which points even harder to merging the Christian Churches back into one Church, specifically: 16: “…and there will be one flock, one shepherd.”

Actually many of my readings of late keep pointing to the need for the Christian Churches to merge again and become one in Christ, with one Shepherd.

How do we make that happen?

Religion Today…

As I stated in this post, for the past 5 years I have been very deep into religion and learning more about the various religions out there. I had already spent about 20 years learning, following and teaching about the ways of the Apache Nation, specifically the Mescalero Tribe.

From my studies then and since, I have been convinced that God created the earth, and then gave the, now called, Jewish community His Graces. He saw where sin was taking them and He had various holy people state that there would be a Messiah to come along and save the World. In the thousands of years that the Jewish people had favor with God, they continued to sin and move away from, then closer to, then away from God, in cycles.

As time went on, from my reading of history, the Qur’an, Torah, and “Christian” Bible, I see a nation, the Jewish, following in appearance the rules of God, but at the same time trying to gain wealth and stature in this world, while appearing to follow the rules of God.

Finally God gave the world His Only Begotten Son, Jesus as the Messiah/Christ. When the Jewish world saw this man of extreme knowledge and power, “spouting” words that challenged the leaders of the Jewish communities, and at the same time showing the various traits and happenings that were foretold to the Jewish hundreds of years earlier, the leaders of the Jewish communities, and the Jewish communities as a group shunned and despised the Foretold Messiah as it would mean that they would loose their power and wealth. This even after the Jewish Leaders acknowledged Jesus’ miracles as being done and teachings as being valid.

Since the Jewish communities, as a group, with exceptions of course, were not accepting the Messiah, the Messiah spread the word to the rest of the world, accepting anyone who would take His Word and follow it. In the process He changed the rules of life, opening up the protection of God to those who loved one another, lived as sinless lives as possible, and followed the new Covenant of Christ. Thus began the “new” Church of God, the Christian Church.

My studies show me that this Church started out as one Church that covered two areas, the “East” and the “West”. Many years later those two areas split into the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. They follow to this day the same basic practices, with some minor differences, and they both can show an uninterrupted “laying of hands” of the 11 Apostles/Disciples of Christ on their Clergy and Leadership. There is only one Pope, currently Pope Benedict XVI, who is the Head of the Roman Catholic Church, and whom the Eastern Orthodox Church respects and listens to with respect.

The Muslim or Islamic faith began in roughly 610AD when Mohammad began having visions in caves. His following was slow to grow, and grew from fighting and conquering of peoples. To this day, his faith is centered on death of anyone not following his words. His history and sayings didn’t start taking to written text until over 100 years, and in many cases 200-300 years after his death from illness. (This is an area I know least about, but have looked at to an extent.)

The rest of the Christian faith systems currently out there really didn’t start until 1500+ years (just in the last 500 years!) after the Christian faith started through the teachings of Jesus Christ himself! This split from the Orthodox/Catholic Church system was started over protesting various issues in the Church. So, Martin Luther, a Roman Catholic Ordained Priest split from the Church and created his own Church, the Lutheran Church. The rest of the Protestant (derived from protesting) Churches, have come from that split at various levels years later.

The foundation for the Christian faith is recorded in documents that are created in the lifetime of those that witnessed Jesus’ actions, and have been proven through archeology and through various in depth reviews and research from many professions and by people of many faiths, often those trying to disprove them.

Over the last 500 years, and probably longer, the Catholic Church has started heading the way of the original Jewish faith. They have gone towards the desire of money and “fame”. Many of the Protestant Churches and leaders have as well. The Catholic Church has, in the recent 100 or so years, appeared to have gotten away from spreading the Word, and has gotten centered on “shortening” the Word to make it easier for people to come to Church. The Catholic Congregation is more worried about football games, time off to play, etc, than worrying about going to Worship services, etc. For example, the Easter Vigil done on the Saturday evening before Easter Sunday normally has 7 large readings that are done, and most Churches, at least in the US do 4 or less of the readings to make time go by faster. The Palm Sunday services, which are historically about 2.5 hours long now last about an hour, and many aspects of the service are shortened or removed to make it a shorter service so more people will come.

One aspect of the Protestant Churches that is good is that many Protestant Congregations know the Bible much better than those of the Catholic basis.

All of these Churches/Faiths, Orthodox-Catholic/Muslim-Islamic/Protestant, pray to the same God of Abraham/David. The Christian side, Protestant/Orthodox-Catholic, using the same Bible (not counting the King James Version, which I am not sure how valid it is to the original wording of the Authors), and with the same intent, and with the Muslim-Islamic faith come from an entirely different direction.

The newest Christian Churches are those that take the current “me” aspect of life that many people are leaning to, and are almost doing away with all the traditions and teachings of the Church and making it a religion that the individual sets up for themselves, almost making themselves God. In many cases the ones I’ve been to have looked like the Pastor, a self appointed “Reverend”, was attempting to make money from tithing while screaming at the top of their lungs about Sin/etc.

The Christian Church needs to get back to it’s roots and get back to the teachings of Jesus and God. Stop hording the money and valuables. Find Christ again, follow His Words and give to the poor, help the needy (go to most Catholic Churches today and ask for help if you are homeless!!), and teach and live the Love of Christ again!

The Christian faith needs to come together again within the Catholic Church grow strong as a single and united Church in Christ. The Catholic Church needs to learn from the Protestant Churches on the evangelizing and missionary practices they are known for, while keeping the items that Jesus and the early Church taught, such as the Eucharistic services, and the process of Mass, which many Protestant Churches have done away with to further remove themselves from the Catholic Church they came from. The Catholic Church needs to look at the early Church and the Priest being married, at least initially, and rethink the need to have Priest being 100% celibate. (In the Old Church, if the wife passed away, the Priest was not allowed to remarry and must remain celibate to his state in life.) This issue is probably one of the biggest issues in the need for new Priest within the Church.

After converting to the Catholic faith last year, I was pretty negative on the Protestant Churches out there. This past two months I have been looking at that negativity closer and am now moving well away from it. All Christians are good as long as they follow the Rules as set down by God through the Commandments and the rules as outlined by Jesus.

Both sides of the Christian Fence should look with less negativity towards the other side of the fence and learn from their piers in Christ!

In Christ!